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- Group .- Group members (89) . 

Linux Peace


Distributions
Description:

I'm sick of reading about Kubuntu fans saying how much better KDE is than Ubuntu and GNOME and vice versa, what the hell are you fighting over, we're all using Linux! Why Linux users would fight over various distros just seems dumb to me. People are acting like Ubuntu and its deratives are the only Linux distros, and that somehow they are competitors?!
Aren't you forgetting about Gentoo Linux, Mandriva, Red Hat Enterprise Linux, Debian, Fedora, SUSE Linux or any of the other 200 Linux distros?

Join this group if you're tired of and against all of the groups consisting of "No Ubuntu bla bla bla"-, "Kubuntu is better than Ubuntu"- or "Ubuntu is better than Kubuntu"-bullshit!
Also while we're at it, people are fighting over different desktop environments, like "KDE vs GNOME" and so on, I find that just as dumb.

Personally I am a Ubuntu fan and I love Gnome, but that doesn't mean I don't like KDE or Kubuntu, or any other distro. Sure, some distros I like better than others, but I don't go on flaming the ones I didn't like.

Homepage:http://www.linux.org
Members:89
Comments:88
Created:Jul 1 2008
Changed:Jul 24 2008
Readability:readable for everybody
Membership:everybody can join

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 Car

 
 by deniseweird on: Jul 5 2008
 
Score 50%

I still don't get it. To me, the car would be GNU. I can agree that Linux would be the engine. But I would call the car by the name of the car, GNU, like the OS name is GNU. Linux is just one part of it, and it will probably be replaced by the GNU project's own kernel, Hurd, when that kernel is ready. (Linux was just here quicker and they decided to cooperate.) You are right that people don't care about internals. But that only makes me wonder EVEN MORE why people call the OS by the name of the KERNEL, wich is just that, a part of the system, and one that can be replaced too.


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 Cars

 
 by Punkrockwarlord on: Jul 5 2008
 
Score 50%

By the way, the focus of this group was to get people to stop fighting over different distros and desktop environments and any other meaningless crap, not to get people start fighting over OS/Car descriptions. Just saying...


sudo apt-get remove windows
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 Re: Cars

 
 by Fri13 on: Sep 4 2008
 
Score 50%

You are right, but the problem exist in information, actually lack of information.

People believe that Operating System is like the Car. Actually the Operating System is the Car Engine. The car is the Software System. Software systems are then Ubuntu, Fedora etc. KDE and GNOME are like just different interface to that car.

So the problem exist in believe that Ubuntu is the Sperating System, or Gnome is part of Operating System. Both are totally false.

You can not fight with facts, only about tastes or believes. Thats why all kind religion can be bad, was it for spiritual or about softwares... it actually ends always to fights.

The Operating System is the software what is runned in Kernel mode or in Supervisoer mode.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0130313580/ref=sib_dp_pt/103-7158569-1619062#reader-link

The problem is in meaning too. When you download Ubuntu, it is marketed for you as free operating system. When you switch to it from Fedora, what was too "sold" to you as Operating System. User "automatically" makes presumption that they got only the operating system.
What is just false believe. They got operating system and lots and lots of applications to run on the operating system, so the computer usage would be easier.

It is like selling a fruit basket. Ubuntu or Fedora is like that. Operating System is the basket, and applications are like fruits. You can have many different kinds of fruit basket. All comes with different sets of fruits, but with same basket. Everyone knows that fruits ain't part of the basket or that you get a basket and the fruits. Because you learn these things when you are child. But in computer systems, it is dificult even to understand by normal user what is happening inside the "black box" what is called as "computer case".
And when you start talking about software, it is even more harder to explain that internet is not the blue E on the desktop or the internet is not on the machine, it is "out there".

The main problem is the marketing. Corporations who wants you to buy their products and services. They do everything just to get your "soul". And one worst community in this time on Linux world is Canonical with it's Ubuntu. Lots of fanboyism and hate against other distributions. Not officially, but the community does not even try to stop it officially.

And then we have these stupid fights about Ubuntu screenshots on *look.org etc. People fighting that "Ubuntu is better OS than Fedora". Without understanding they are not talkin about operating systems at all.


KDE4 is here to konqueror desktops ;-)
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 A word on analogies.

 
 by zmorganart on: Jul 6 2008
 
Score 50%

[sigh] Analogies are never perfect. It was a base explanation for those who are lost in this argument. Simply put, nothing is a car, but a car. You can never perfect an analogy, its just a tool. By arguing over the car analogy, you have missed the meaning and reverted back to the semantics argument of Linux vs Linux/GNU, etc., except you have replaced part of it with an analogy. Look at the two words of the group. If you are not concerned with Linux nor peace, I do not see of what concern this group is to you anyway. I just want the infighting to stop, however, it would appear that many are just too stuck in this mindset. There is a cliche old saying: You can't see the forest for the trees. (Please don't pick that apart too.)


"The struggle to free myself of restraints, has become my very shackles." --Meshuggah
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 Re: A word on analogies.

 
 by Fri13 on: Sep 22 2008
 
Score 50%

You are exactly correct. If we discuss about technology, we have technical terms and reasons why something is something. We should not need analogies to explain things for us.

It is very easy to try to explain something with car analog or similar if other person does not want to know anything else than minimal information.
But, everytime the analog is used, the information gets twisted and it loose it most important part, the pure information.

It is easy to use analogies to proof you are right, by building ad hominem. It is easy to start flamewars just with analogies and spread false information.
Thats why when we talk about computer science, marketing or any other specific area... we should use correctly all the terms what are there, and not to mix up there.

Everytime I read/hear car analogies used in computer science, few guys pop-ups to my mind. How they were always fighting with car analogies about operating systems, kernels, browsers etc. The endresult of discussion was that "Operating system is inside of operating system", "Kernel is inside of kernel", "Software developer knows what is operating system, but it is different than for user what use the operating system". And everything was build just with car analogies and all the computer science facts were denied with "you seem to be somekind religious guy, go away" talk.

Hopefully such thing does not hap
pen here ;-)

ps. Very nice to find more persons who hates car analogies... it is like finding a car inside a garage... ;-)


KDE4 is here to konqueror desktops ;-)
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 blah

 
 by deniseweird on: Jul 6 2008
 
Score 50%

I agree that we should not fight over which distros we use, that's not my problem. My problem is that you act like Linux is an operating system, while it is just a part of it. Sure, an important part indeed, but still a part of it, and one that will most likely be replaced too. And by doing this, you are guilty to the same thing you are against. Saying Linux while talking about GNU is like saying Ubuntu without considering other distributions actually. What we rather have in common is that we use GNU. No matter which distribution of GNU/Linux we use, and no matter if we use GNU with OpenSolaris kernel (GNU/Opensolaris), as with the case of Nexenta, or if we use GNU/Hurd or GNU/kFreeBSD, we use GNU.


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 Re: blah

 
 by Punkrockwarlord on: Jul 6 2008
 
Score 50%

You might be on to something Deniseweird, but if your beef is not about people fighting over different distributions of Linux, why did you start your argument in this particular group?


sudo apt-get remove windows
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.

 Re: blah

 
 by Fri13 on: Sep 22 2008
 
Score 50%

Yah yeah... again this political propaganda = "Linux is the kernel, GNU/Linux is the operating system"

http://tinyurl.com/532kb8
http://tinyurl.com/mum9x
http://tinyurl.com/qhuhg

First you have to read those, then read this --> http://www.topology.org/human/?a=/linux/lingl.html

If you still believe (and I say believe not "know") that GNU/Linux is operating system and Linux is just a kernel and not the operating system. You are out of luck because you dont understand the computer science what relays to facts and not political propaganda what GNU/Linux is about. Because everything what we use to write these text and use our computers, is based to information what you find on those few links.


What is Linux and GNU/Linux?
http://tinyurl.com/532kb8
http://tinyurl.com/mum9x
http://tinyurl.com/qhuhg
http://tinyurl.com/3uaq48

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 Why

 
 by deniseweird on: Jul 7 2008
 
Score 50%

Because you said the purpose was to stop all the Ubuntu-centric groups. And I think that having a Linux-centric group yourself kind of goes against that. I would prefer if you had a "GNU Peace" or similarly named group with the GNU logo instead of that awful penguin. The system we are likely using is GNU, right? Well you could be using FreeBSD, but that's a different story. (FreeBSD is a complete operating system independant from either GNU or the Linux kernel.)


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 Re: Why

 
 by Punkrockwarlord on: Jul 7 2008
 
Score 50%

I'm pretty sure you understood what I meant with this group, right? If you didn't not; I am sick of people arguing over Linux distro's, e.g. Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Mandriva etc... (GNU OS's built on the Linux kernel!)
Why is this you ask?:
Simply because I have never seen GNU users arguing about things like "OpenSolaris is better than Linux", sure, some people may think that because, as I said, we're all different. But I don't see GNOME.look.org/KDE-look.org/Xfce-look.org or whatever, filled with groups backing up that statement, like I do with Linux users. Tell you what, if people start arguing about what's the better alternative between GNU and Linux in the future, I promise you I will make a group called "GNU Peace", deal?
For now, this group is called "Linux peace", and Tux (That awful penguin you were talking about) shall stay in its picture.

P.S. If I was to call the group "GNU Peace", I sure hope no one would give me crap about me not naming it "UNIX-like OS's Peace".


sudo apt-get remove windows
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 Re: Re: Why

 
 by Punkrockwarlord on: Jul 7 2008
 
Score 50%

*EDIT*: I meant "...what's the better alternative between OpenSolaris and Linux etc., in the future..."
Not GNU and Linux, yeah you probably understood it despite my typo.


sudo apt-get remove windows
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 "Unix-like Os's peace"?

 
 by deniseweird on: Jul 7 2008
 
Score 50%

There is a clear difference here though. No matter which kernel you use with GNU, you use the GNU OS. If you use for example FreeBSD though, this is different because FreeBSD is a completely different operating system independent from GNU.


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 Re: "Unix-like Os's peace"

 
 by Fri13 on: Jul 10 2008
 
Score 50%

Actually, kernel makes the OS what it is. But you need to take in conclusion is kernel a monolith, micro or a hybrid. Kernel does almost everything what OS is suppose to do but it cant do it alone, it needs utils and libraries to work and thats the reason why it's called GNU/Linux. Then when you have Linux + GNU utils, you have OS. Then you need shell for it if you want CLI but if you want GUI, you can just install Xorg+Gnome (kde etc).

And even if you install more applications there, you are running one and same OS.

If you change kernel, you get different OS, even that utils would be same. Example, GNU/Hurd and GNU/OpenSolaris are two different OS's if comparing them to GNU/Linux, so together you have three different OS.

And if you take Linux + something else, you still get Linux OS.
If Microsoft would use Linux on their next Windows version, it would be Linux OS. Because you would need to recode all the utils, libraries etc to get them work on Linux and it would change it so much that it wouldn't be anymore Windows, but it wouldn't be GNU/Linux but Windows/Linux. And then we would have Windows/NT and Windows/Linux.

Same thing goes to Windows, Microsoft had few different OS's. MS-DOS, NT and CE.

MS-DOS was MS-DOS 1.0 - Windows ME, so it's story is ended. Currently Windows NT is what is Microsoft main OS, those are called from NT 3 - Vista (NT 6). And same time Microsoft is having a Windows CE, now Windows Mobile. Dont know what version number it goes.

Even the Windows Vista and XP are two same OS but other is newer version from it. Just like Linux 2.4.x is same OS as Linux 2.6.x but different version. And same thing goes to all distributions, all are using same OS, with different package of utils and applications.

Very simple and rough math is:

Hardware <> OS (linux+gnu) <> Applications (interface, browser etc) <> User.

User use hardware (keyboard) to type commands what he see on hardware (monitor) what application (CLI/GUI) shows him, the application transferss commands to OS what process it and use it's utils to work and sends then answer back to application what shows them to user what sees them on hardware.
User never see the OS when working with computer, only applications and hardware.

OS is like cars motor, driver does not use motor to go from point A to B. Driver does not use motor to drive a car. Driver uses wheel, pedals and sits on chair to drive a car, what motor allows moving.

Analogies always sucks so those shoud'nt be used. But if someone of you get hands of OS programming book, you just notice that OS is "under the hood", just like motor is on car. You dont see it, you dont use it, you use other things to control the motor, what ain't part of motor but those are needed to allow you to use your car ;)


KDE is made for users by users....
What can you give back to others?

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